“Weinland Witnessing” Blogging

Hi everybody, I decided to create my very own blogg so that I can fully moderate things.  I think that Citizen X does s good job on his blogg, but there are some comment-postings that I would like to be able to approve and would like to be more lenient.  But however, don’t get me wrong though, I still do not want to see foul language, nothing but sarcasm (a lil’ bit of it can be tolerated though), hate-filled comments toward anybody including Mr. Weinland & Mr. Armstrong.  I am certainly not advocating that you must believe what I believe, but I just ask that you keep your comments as respectfull as is possible.  This blogg is only for people whom share a belief in God, in Jesus Christ, and in the Bible, because if you do not at least have those beliefs, then there is no maner of being objective in your responses because most atheists or agnostics would just discount much of the Bible anyhow since they don’t even believe in it in the very first place.  Once yet again, you don’t have to believe in what I believe, but we at the very least need to share the belief that the Bible is the infallible Word Of God.

Most people already know this, but I believe that Mr. Ronald Weinland is one of God’s 2 prophets and 2 witnesses for this End-Time period that I believe we are in right now.  Mr. Weinland wrote his first book, “The Prophesied End-Time” which is published in June 2004, and then his second and last book, “2008 – God’s Final Witness” was published in November 2006.  The original time-frame for the 2nd Trumpet of the 7th Seal of the book of Revelation to be blown came and went, although even before that timing had finished passing, Mr. Weinland gave some sermons stating that he had been given powerfull revelation that his web-site calls the “50th Truth”, which can be read at http://www.cog-pkg.org/publications/50truths.aspx  or heard sermons regarding this truth at http://www.cog-pkg.org/audio/download/08/2008-06-28_50th_truth.mp3  and it’s also important to listen to his sermon from the Sabbath before this sermon at http://www.cog-pkg.org/audio/download/08/2008-06-21_Following_God.mp3

There are many persons in the World whom still believe that Mr. Weinland could be God’s prophet because many of them feel that God was using this period period of time to humble God’s people by correcting what they had believed to be true in the past regarding the timing for the returning of Jesus Christ (believing in the past to be on the Feast Of Trumpets, but then believing through the revelation of the 50th Truth to be on Pentecost).  Also, there is alot of spiritual warfare being waged and allowing Satan to believe something other than what was true more greatly protected God’s Church, and also served to humble His people through revealed correction.  Even aisde from the interpretation of prophecy, Mr. Weinland’s 2 books go into great depth and detail of God’s purpose and plan for mankind, with ALOT of biblical accounts to provide support for much of those beliefs.  I would recommend reading those 2 books as I believe it contains a great death of truth regarding doctrine and God’s purpose and plan for mankind, regardless of his interpretation of prophecy.  Things like the truth about Heaven and Hell, the Trinity, the holidays of Christmas & Easter, the non-eternal existence of Jesus Christ, and much more, is discussed in Mr. Weinland’s 2 books.

I will be posting a link to Mike (DDTFA)’s blogg-posting that he directed toward me to respond to, and I will be posting my response to this on this blogg so that you can comment on this, but please keep in mind that my blogg (just like Citizen X’s blogg) has different rules than does Mike’s blogg.  Even though Mike does show some restraint in his commenters, I don’t feel that it is enough as anything  goes regarding disrespecting Mr. Weinland is essentially what Mike allows, and that is fine because it is his very own blogg, but Citizen X and I both desire to have a place where both Weinland supporters and un-decideds can come to express their feelings without fearing hostility and bitterness from many of the people whom firmly believe that Mr. Weinland is a false prophet.  Now, I will allow people whom share this latter belief to comment on my blogg, but they must keep their comments respectfull, and if Angel and xHWA are any guides for respectfully disgreeing, please read some of their postings to get the feel for how to respectfully express your beliefs.  I want you to think as objectively as is possible, regardless of whether or not you believe that Mr. Weinland is 100% a false prophet.  Angel and xHWA have been incredibly respectfully in their disagreements with Mr. Weinland, so please follow their character when responding to my postings and to other commenters because I will not allow down-right bitterness to creep into this blogg because there are hundreds of those kinds of bloggs that you can delve into, but this is not this kind of blogg for you.

I love everybody for whom they are and what they have gone through in their lives.  I also expect everybody to be 100% honest on here.  If somebody is an ex member of the Church Of God, I expect them to be fully honest just like everybody else when it comes to giving accounts of happenings within the Worldwide Church Of God under the authority (under Jesus Christ) of Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong.  If their intent is to discredit Mr. Armstrong, Mr. Weinland, the Worldwide Church Of God, or the Church Of God – PKG with falsehoods or hear-say, then please do not post it, because we need to be thining objectively and not basing our accussations upon what we hear from others because many people wanted to bring those pastors down when they might not have done anything wrong, and unless we were there and actually witnessing those things happening yourself, then please don’t post it as being factually true because it just very well might be false.

I look forward to having good and fruitfull discussions regarding God, even if we just cannot agree with each other.   I will hopefully begin posting something sometime during today or tonight, so stay tuned to this blogging of mine.  Also, we can still post to Citizen X’s “The Weinland Witness” blogg, but I wanted to start fresh with a brand-spankin’-new blogg, but there are still some lingering thoughts that might still want to be commented upon.

Aaron Robinson

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13 Responses to ““Weinland Witnessing” Blogging”

  1. muzicsoulworldly Says:

    Doubt It on 4/13/2010 @ 9:06 AM

    I never said that I had a problem with people calling Mr. Weinland a false-prophet, although some might have said this though. I just don’t like ridicule and mocking and scoffing, is this something Jesus Christ did to those whom didn’t believe ? No, he still spoke the truth to them even though they were wrong, but he didn’t just disrespect them by ridiculing how somebody says the word nuclear, or things like this, I mean, Moses had a speech problem, but God still worked with him, and I wouldn’t even say that Mr. Weinland has a speech problem, it’s just a dialect is all. So I’m just saying that I never said that I had a problem with people believing that Mr. Weinland is a false-prophet, it’s the other stuff is all.

    Aaron

  2. math games Says:

    first!

  3. muzicsoulworldly Says:

    Just so that everybody realizes, I posted a brand-spankin’-new posting, so please check it out.

  4. muzicsoulworldly Says:

    Doubt It on 4/13/2010 @ 4:02 PM

    I have directly addressed this very question in my recent comment-postings. I know I wrote quite a bit, but please read them if you desire to know my thinking regarding those various things.

  5. muzicsoulworldly Says:

    Doubt It on 4/13/2010 @ 3:44 PM

    Well, if a prophet receives revelation to the truth, but then changes once yet again (such as like Mr. Weinland changing to another date besides Pentecost 2012 for the return of Jesus Christ, that I would deem him to be a false prophet.

    In some my most recent previous comment-postings, I explained that Mr. Weinland did believe that God had given him the time-frame, and in a certain sense he still did because if He is God’s prophet then God allowed him to believe what he believed until it was His perfect timing to reveal where they were wrong and correct them to the truth. In a sense it did come from God because they have to use what they believe God is showing them, until otherwise receiving correction in their thinking. Had Mr. Weinland gave any other date other than the Feast Of Trumpet 2011 for the return of Jesu Christ, then he would be goig outside of the realm of what God’s Church was having faith in being of the truth and the very fact that Mr. Weinland stating the timing based upon 2008 being God’s Final Witness and as well as Jesus Christ returning on the Feast Of Trumpets, Mr. Weinland was speaking what he felt God was telling him to speak, but then he received correction, and he didn’t presumptuously state what he stated, since it was based upon what God’s Church believed, and straying away from God’s Church by stating anything else would have been presumptuous and thus he would have been a false prophet. He was saying thaty people might as well keep their funds more secured and more on-hand because he really truly did believe that his original time-frame was correct, otherwise he wouldn’t have made such bold statements, but now God’s Church has been given correction to the truth and Mr. Weinland is not telling us to just give-up and stop doing things.

    Just so that I’m very clear about this, I didn’t mean that you yourself personally supported any sort of religious holiday. If I generalized my statement too much then I apologize to you, because my intent was referring to many of their critics, but not all of their critics, but many of them seem to not have a problem with what Mr. Tkach did within the church, denouncing what they had very long believed. How about the things that the Church Of Philadelphia is saying, claiming to be “that prophet” which could only be Jesus Christ, I don’t hear people shouting in droves that he is a false prophet. Once again, I’m not describing specifically you though.

  6. doubt it Says:

    Do you ever see the words of RW as mocking/ridiculing?

  7. doubt it Says:

    So it seems that you believe that a prophet must be wrong twice to be false?

    Is it safe to assume that you believe the initial timeline was NOT given by God as RW claimed before changing to the second?

    Please do not combine my pointing out that RW is clearly, self stated, a false prophet with the assumption that I support any sort of religious holiday, pagan or other.

    It is one thing to be harmlessly off with timing. It is quite another to be wrong, claim it is coming to you straight from God and tell people that they might as well cash in their retirement and refinance their homes as it will all be worthless when the tribulation starts next year!

  8. muzicsoulworldly Says:

    Mr. Weinland has not be wrong over and over and over again, unless you are are counting everything he said being wrong separately because of the new timing. The understanding of the real timing moved everything on forward, and you can choose to find fault with this if you so desire to do so, but this doesn’t make him wrong over and over and over again when it was the issue of the return of jesus Christ being later than was previous understood to be, and so thus, this one aspect of the timing naturally altered the timing for everything else. Regarding the Thunders, I posted an extensive analysis of the Thunders of Revelation, and with that, we can see that those Thunders are indeed rumbling louder, just not in the manner in which Mr. Weinland’s critics care to see them becoming manifested into reality.

    It is absolutely true and correct that Mr. Weinland himself said that he would be nothing more than a false prophet if the timing didn’t occur, and that it would be insane to believe aything else otherwise. But however, if it’s true that God withheld the truth of the timing until it was His perfect timing to reveal it to His Church, then how was Mr. Weinland supposed to know that the originally-stated time-frame would be wrong ? He was using hat the Church had long believed unless correction from God came to them, and this is how God’s Church has always worked. God’s Church is never perfect and never has 100% of the truth correct, as God gives correction to His Church over the course of time. I mean, do the letters which John wrote to the 7 Churches in Asia have no meaning, was God’s Church perfect and not losing their truth ? People have this misconception that God’s Church can never incorrectly believe something, and that it must be a false church run by a false apostle, a false prophet, or some kind of false servant and not being of God. Even God’s servants claimed that Jesus Christ was riding on into Jerusalem to thwart the oppression of the Roman government and establish himself in God’s Kingdom upon this Earth. Well, this was obviously not true, but they stated that this would be happening, but yet why are they not looked upon as being false servants of God ? Also, for those of you whom complain that Mr. Weinland talked about 9/11 after-the-fact of it having already happened, shouldn’t you then also be condemning Ezekiel for prophecying regarding the captivity of Israel AFTER it was already occuring ? This is why we say that the citics and mockers have treated God’s people in the same manners as they have all throughout the course of human history, always trying to find fault. Those very same things that his mockers accuse him of doing are the very same kinds of things that God’s servants did throughout the Bible. God’s Church is not perfect and sometimes even God’s servants go stating things that aren’t 100% of the truth because they didn’t realize it until God then corrected them at some point along their journey of truth. None of God’s people have ever had all of the truth at any given time, and this kind of progressive revelation is for a purpose, as everything God says and works is for a purpose, as non purposing would be in vain, and God is not like this at all whatsoever. Mr. Weinland stating that it would be insane to believe anything else other than false prophet wass because he was very bold and confident in keeping his faith with what God’s Church had very long believed, because he had no idea at all whatsoever that God would be revealing the truth of the timing for the returning of Jesus Christ, just as much as God’s servants didn’t know that what they thought was happening (Jesus Christ coming into Jerusalem to become their King right then and there, or God’s Kingdom was very very nearby to coming very soon since Jerusalem and the Temple was being destroyed, or when Ezekiel had to write about the captivity of Israel while it was already occuring) was nt actually happening and was then given correction by God to understanding more of the truth.

    Also, I want to make this really very clear that I have never stated that I had a problem with people disagreeing with Mr. Weinland, or deeming him to be a false prophet, or even from saying that he is in it only for the money. My main point with this was saying about they mock and ridicule, which doesn’t have to be done to disagree with somebody. Jesus Christ never mocked or ridiculed his critics, not even the people whom were wanting to kill him to death. I have actually commended posters such as like xHWA, Angel, Citizen X, and some others for very respectfully discussing those issues. They might have just only occassionally said something that is of a mocking or ridiculing tone, but for the most part they have kept things very respectfull but they still vehemotly disbelieve Mr. Weinland and Mr. Armstrong and most of what they have said or have done, but I have no problems with them.

    One more intriguing parallel that I realized is when Judas Iscariot was complaining that Mary was pouring-out the very very expensive oil spikenard, and was complaining why they wouldn’t sell it for some money to then give this money to the poor ? This is such a powerfull parallel because Mr. Weinland’s critics, as well as Mr. Armstrong’s critics, say that it’s wrong that he can claim to be God’s servant but yet lavishly live in an expensive dwelling. Well, if this is patt of God’s work whereby making him so much more influential and able to have more wealth and more able to be able to travell around the World meeting with leaders of the nations of this World, which somebody would need to be very wealthy to be able to do, to be able to preach the gospel into the World as a witness unto all nations. People think that they should sell their houses and use that money for the poor. I discuss more of this in my previous response-postings on this blogg of mine.

    We need to think on back to what God’s people did when offered correction from God, even correction for what was being stated as fact even though this didn’t always turn out in this manner. Did God’s others Apostles and His other servants claim them to be false because they were not correct in what they said. Of course not, because they received correction to what the truth really truly was. It’s even much more correction in the times of Mr. Armstrong and Mr. Weinland because God’s Church had to continullay come out of traditionally Christianity, un-learning the ways of the Roman Catholic Church. I mean, talk about falsely following, I mean, God has told us to never follow the traditions of mankind, but rather to only follow HIs very own traditions, but yet most of their critics seem to believe the Roman Catholic traditions because most of the traditional Christian Churches in this World teach those things which came from out of the Roman Catholic Church. I mean, how can we look at Christmas and say that this isn’t of Pagan origins, and the persons that do indeed admit that it’s of Pagan origins says that it’s okay to do it because we are not Pagans, but how would God and/or Jesus Christ feel about this kind of thing ? Even if Mr. Weinland were false prophet, this doesn’t make it any more better to be following thigns that run contrary to what the Bible commands of us to be doing and to be not doing.

  9. doubt it Says:

    Aaron,

    You act as though Ron has been wrong only one time and you are giving him a second chance. When in reality he has been wrong over and over and over! I assume that you are familiar with the Bible? How many situations have you come across anywhere near the prophetic mess that we are seeing with RW today? You really think that God would bring forth a prophet that would make such a joke out of his end time ministries? Listen to Stay the Course – Pt.1 62min – 65min (STC1 62:65) and then let me know how it can be wrong/mocking for anyone to claim that RW is a false prophet or that he is doing it all for the money. You justify with ‘new understanding’ but RW even closed the door on that with STC1 62:65 calling it “blah blah blah, blah blah”!

    “there’s only one answer. HE’S A FALSE PROPHET”
    -RW (STC1 62:65)

    If his followers want to continue to follow a false prophet, that is there choice.

    If Ron wants to continue to preach and collect their tithes, that is his choice.

    If people want to create blogs on the internet to communicate their understanding/experience/opinion, that is their choice.

    I cannot understand the issue that RW, PKG and outside RW supporters (such as yourself) have with people calling him a False Prophet and saying that he is in it only for the money, when STC1 62:65 can be downloaded and listened to right on the official PKG website. “Nothing he can say can change that”!

    How many times does a prophet have to be wrong to be false?

  10. muzicsoulworldly Says:

    Debbie on 4/7/2010 @ 6:58 AM

    You said that you and other poke fun at Ron because he makes it so easy, but regardless of whether or not you feel that his fallicies or falsehoods are obvious doesn’t take away from that we are not to treat anybody in this manner, even if they have done despicable things. Might I ask you when were you a member of the Church Of God, like during which years ?

    You mention how Mr. Weinland is irreverent towards God, but what if God allowed him to choose some of those Thunders ? God knew that Mr. Weinland choosings would be that od God’s own will because Mr. Weinlands choosings were inspired by God, so this doesn’t show that Mr. Weinland is dictating to God.

    The Angelic-Realm isn’t quite the same as the physical realm, namely us human-beings, because the archangels speaking-out and pointing-out when people do wrong is what Jesus Christ and God’s servants did. The angels are spirit-beings, and the angels do not have the same kind of carnal nature which mankind does indeed have, and so thus, the angels have enough faith in God’s ways of living life that they don’t speak against others. Especially since we don’t know our own minds, how can we possibly know if this is about Ronnie’s ego ? I mean, what if Satan has been deceiving Mr. Weinland, I mean, I don’t believe this to be the case, but if this were the case, this could mean that Mr. Weinland was being deceived into believing that He was God’s prophet and he could have very strongly believed whom he said that he was, which means that it would not have been about his ego. Being a false prophet doesn’t mean that they intentionally deceived people, so you shouldn’t say that it’s about his ago when it really might not be.

    Regarding what you said about God bringing about the Tribulation period, no, he is not so very small that he wouldn’t be able to bring about the Tribulation with tremendous results. I’m assuming you’re referring to the lack of “great tribulation” that Mr. Weinland said would be happening at the opening of the 7th Seal, but he hadn’t yet received God’s revelation of the greater truth of the timing, something that God can not condemn Mr. Weinland for being wrong about because God chose to reveal the timing after Mr. Weinland already stated the original time-frame because of the belief in God’s Church of the returning of Jesus Christ on the Feast Of Trumpets. Do you think that Mr. Weinland just suddenly came-up with this incredible timing out of the blue ? Furthermore, if he knew about this timing from before-hand, then he wouldn’t have given an original time-frame knowing that it wouldn’t pan-out and then lose some members over this, but do you really believe that he just so happened to come-up with this incredible timing for the 50th Truth once his first time-frame didn’t pan-out ? How could you discover this kind of timing so very quickly unless he knew about this from before-hand, in which case this wouldn’t make any sense cuz then he would have used this timing from the very get-go since it was so very much more powerfull than the first time-frame.

    Regarding Mike’s postings regarding Bible passages talking about false prophets, I most certainly have addressed some of those passages, especially Deuteronomy 18:20-22, of which even Mr. Weinland addressed during one of his sermons. Mr. Weinland also addressed several other Biblical Scriptures in this sermon as well also. It is very much true that Mr.Weinland said things such as like that he was a false prophet if things didn’t happen in April 2008, that it would be insane to believe anything else otherwise. But you know what, even God’s people can be further humbled into humility, because Mr. Weinland received revelation from God about the truth of the powerfull timing, and how could he have known that God was withholding the truth about timing for the returning of Jesus Christ which would inevitably alter the time-frame Mr. Weinland would have given for everything else ? Why would God fault His prophet for not having yet been given the truth regarding the returning of Jesus Christ being on Pentecost an not on the Feast Of Trumpets? I spoke in one of my previous few comment-postings regarding how I’m interpreting Deuteronomy 18:20-22, because I believe that God essentially did command Mr. Weinland to say what he said simply because God was fully-well expecting him to speak the original time-frame like he did because of what God’s Church was believing by holding faith in those believes, and God knew that he would do this and He also knew that it would all come together because He was about to reveal the powerfull truth of the timing for the return of Jesus Christ which would even further humble Mr. Weinland as well as God’s Church to realize where they had believed wrongly, and not even God’s people can always understand God’s reasonings for when he reveals things in His own perfect timing. This thought-process doesn’t necessarily prove Mr. Weinland’s prophethood, but it should at least have people consider that this could be the real deal and not just some conning by a masterfull false-prophet. Couldn’t God be working in this manner whereby he allows His people to believe certain things if His timing has not yet come to reveal the truth to them ? God’s choosing to reveal this timing in His own perfect timing is what God knew was the perfect timing to reveal what He revealed to His Church. Since Mr. Weinland had total faith in the belief that Jesus Christ would be returning on the Feast Of Trumpets, of course he was bold and confident enough in this belief that he believed to be truth and so yes, he utilized this belief in order to construct the time-frame, and I believe that God allowed Him to do this for a purpose. I mean, I would have done this very same thing if I believed to be God’s prophet and knew about the long-held belief in God’s Church which would show me the time-frame for End-Time events. Then, I would have received great humbling from God to realize that I had the truth wrong for a time, but accepted God’s correction of what the real truth was revealed to be. We cannot argue with how and when God chooses to reveal His truths to His Church, and like I said, this alone doesn’t prove Mr. Weinland’s prophethood, but it should keep people’s eyes open and at least considering the possibility of this being real. Obviously had Mr. Weinland known that His original time-frame was false, then he would have never stated the things about himself that he would have to claim if they didn’t then occur. But he was very bold and confident in saying that those things would be occuring during this time-frame because he believed in what God’s Church believed, and that shows real true faith, even faith in something that is not correct, because eventually God will indeed give his correction to His people to begin following the truth of whatever matter it happens to be. It’s true, most false prophets just keep on coming up with new things to say, but you know that, this doesn’t mean that God’s real true prophet would be false for claiming that this very same thing happened to him, it’s just that Mr. Weinland didn’t know that powerfull correction of this truth was coming very soon now.

  11. Debbie Says:

    Hi All – I came over here ‘cuz that narrowing space is a pain.

    Aaron – we poke fun @ Ronnie ‘cuz he makes it so easy – With him it is like the pot calling the kettle black – Here is an example:

    Ronald has blah, blah, blahed (sp?) about people who drive erratically – I have personally witnessed him drive like a bat out of hell, in pouring down rain, on a busy Saturday night on the Freeway – with us, 3 women in a car supposedly trying to follow him – He was exceeding the speed limit and weaving through cars and we finally couldn’t keep up so just fell behind –

    Now he talks about love, however, he was putting us in danger and other drivers in danger by his dangerous driving –

    Ronald is irreverant towards his god – One example: In his book GFW 2008 he writes that he determined what the thunders would be – “by my own choosing” and then writes them into his book – and then writes that the fulfilling of the thunders would prove what he has written – In essence he is dictating to his god

    Ronald blah, blah, blahs about his mockers – That is contrary to what I have read in the bible where even the archangels would not speak against Satan – This is about Ronnie’s ego

    Aaron – Seriously, is your god so small that if he decided it was time to have people repent and bring on the 3 1/2 year Tribulation, it would be with such poor results – Think about it

    You seem to ignore Mike’s repeated post re: the bible passages talking about what defines a false prophet –

    Here is the clincher – In Ron’s own words

    From his last sermon of 2007 titled “Stay the Course, Part 1”:

    “I wanna speak very plainly and try to speak openly about some of these things…

    You know, one of the things as well, what if Ron Weinland, what he says doesn’t come to pass in April, what if these things don’t happen in 2008. I think about, you know, what have I said in interviews? There’s really a simple answer. False prophet. You know, I get tons of email, I get email every day from people saying, “Well I guess in 2009,” a lot of sarcasm comes out, “I guess you’re gonna be saying this or saying that or trying to explain to people”, No, I’m done.

    Just to be real candid with you so people know and people out there listening who don’t believe this at all, they’re listening because they have a different intent, because they know someone else is listening with a different intent then them, again, that’s the only answer, that’s why I answer like I do during the interviews. There is only one answer! You know, the world is not like that! You know, when people are not doing what is right and they claim certain things or say certain things about what is given to them, and it doesn’t come to pass, then they have to madly change everything, and do something else! You know, and say, “Well, God showed me this” and “I just didn’t understand this, so God is revealed this to me now” and blah, blah, blah, blah, blaah, blaah, blaaaah. Because when you come down to it, it’s about the paycheck. It’s about what are they going to do from here on out. You know?

    Well the bottom line again is here, be bold, be candid here, and say, Well, if it doesn’t happen, there’s only one answer. He’s a false prophet. Nothing he can say can change that. He said it himself. I’ve heard him say it many times, I’ve heard him say it in interviews. You can hear him say it.”

    There you have it – Ronnie is in it for the paycheque!

  12. Ironwolf Says:

    Welcome to your own blog! (not “blogg”, BTW). I’ve always told whiners on my blog (where the original Weinland megathreads took place) that if they want to say anything they want and not get moderated, they should go start their own blog. Web fora, including blog comments, are not unmitigated free speech zones— all the speech in them is moderated by someone, and people who abuse the rules, no matter how loose those rules are, get kicked out.

  13. Jack Says:

    Okay Aaron, what’s your first topic?

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